The unique process used to make LC 200N results in a fine-grain structure. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. 8Cr13MoV still has some corrosion resistance, but not as much as D2. On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. Finally, in this 14c28n vs d2, we hope you get the right one. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. Also how did you arrive at the edge retention & toughness numbers for 8cr13mov and for BD1N toughness? In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. In general, higher carbon and higher vanadium steels have higher wear resistance and edge retention but lower toughness. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. To choose the best knife for you between the 14C28N and the D2, look at the steel properties and ensure that they suit your knife needs and lifestyle. Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. Its called memory metal because heat can get it to revert back to a previous shape. This is a powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. 2. Thank you. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). I reserve the right to change my ratings based on new information. rex 121 There are also hardness/toughness and hardness/TCC charts.but no tables backing this charts. And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. Its in the same class as Vanadis 8 and 10V. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. Because of their good edge retention, these steels are quite versatile in folders and fixed blades. Often used for combat knives. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. Take a look at this edge retention test. As of November 2020, this is Spyderco-exclusive steel. Find your right answers here! You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. ZDP-189 can tarnish, though not as easily as 3V. You showed some pictures in this article of the effect on what we might call "effective toughness" of thinner edge angles vs thicker edges in the same steel at the same hardness. Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. and corrosion resistance than the 420HC steel. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. Both steel types don't chip easily, but 14c28n steel is easier to sharpen. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? . It also improves edge retention and strength. What would be the best deal to use I currently alternate between 20CV S35vn and D2. There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. CROMOVA 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Many steel ratings articles pay lip service to the importance of heat treatment without providing examples. 1. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). It wont hang long with high-end powder metal steels(a method of making steel using ultra-pure micrograins of steel that are heated and pressed together). High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). Even metallurgists can have a difficult time estimating properties just based on the elements. The heat treatment techniques used by the manufacturer as well as the design of the blade itself play a huge role in the ultimate outcome of knife performance! There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. 1. also the angle is by far the most important factor in catra testing, so such results might be irrelevant. The greatest living knifemaker and one of the greatest knifemakers of all time, Michael Walker, calls AEB-L one of his favorite steels. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. Both of those things are no longer an issue as I now have way too many articles and a book. Read more about how it works here. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. im led to believe tha the melting procedure is more important with these steels than the exact composition. D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. Have you tested K390 sufficiently to be able to rate it? Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. Thanks! S45VN If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. Phone Hours (MST) It is a premium steel that is known for its excellent balance of hardness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. Or even a 7 in both categories. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. nevertheles its importand to keep in mind what exactly is going on there (abrasive plastic media, loss of most of cutting ability during the first few strokes etc.). D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. A cryo treatment and close temperature control is necessary to achieve those hardness levels. This does not predict which knife will cut longer or be more resistant to chipping. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. I like it. For example, see the chart below for how much edge retention can change with edge geometry for a single steel (in this case 154CM and CPM-154). at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. INFI is also quite hard and sharpens easily. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. Im looking forward to seeing if it does as well in full production. I would love to see a Tungsten-Carbide blade (like Sandrin is using) and how it compares for Edge Retention, Toughness and Corrosion Resistance especially how it compares to s90v. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . It gets exceptionally sharp, a nod to its origins as a razorblade steel. Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. And given the recipe, it has a low number of carbides, the extra-hard microcrystals in steel that provide the hardness necessary for a stable and sharp edge. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. AR-RPM9 High alloy tool steels are designed to be air hardening, so they can be cooled even slower than the oil hardening steels found above. show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. As to a difference between 8.6 and 8.5, all of the ratings here are rounded to the nearest 0.5 because better than that probably shows false precision. The steel is an air-hardness tool steel that is considered semi-stainless because of its high chromium content. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. : knife a with a toughness of 5 and an angle of 20 degrees will perform as well in edge retention as knife b with a toughness of 3 and an angle of 15 degrees. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? Read our full Sobata 398 review here. Vancron has a very fine microstructure so it would be tough to beat. SG2 s30v The best scenario is when the steel, heat treatment, and geometry are selected for the knife and the use. 14C28N is thus ideal for use in corrosive environments and challenging applications. But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. It has excellent edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. Manage Settings And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. I used to work for a company that did reclaimed old growth lumber (swamp cedar, old growth pine and oak beams, etc) and we went through planer blades twice as fast as the cabinetry shop next door (turns out the neighbors like it when you put all the loud businesses together and far away), which mostly cut fresh cherry, oak, maple, hickory etc. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. A new steel from Crucible, SPY27 launched in 2020 in the Spyderco Native 5and Para 3. D2 steel knives, on the other hand, offer great edge retention and wear resistance, which are properties of tool steels.14C28ND2Toughness93.5Edge retention35Corrosion resistance8.54.5Ease of sharpeningEasyModerately Hard14C28N vs D2. Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. For high wear resistance and edge retention you want a large amount of hard carbides. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/, Unfortunately it all comes down to marketing on everybody involved: Industry, knifemakers, users. Then you can compare 14c28n vs d2, and we hope you will find the right one for your needs. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal.
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