lieutenant pronunciation royal navy

More of an observation than fact. Commissioned Royal Marine Gunner. I, personally, have always pronounced it as lieu - tenant - because it simply makes sense to say it this way. Remembered Today: GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. Training Ship : TU . Colonel and Lieutenant Colonel Colonels and Lieutenant Colonels owe their titles to the Sixteenth Century Spanish King Ferdinand. According to More Word Histories and Mysteries: From Aardvark to Zombie (American Heritage Dictionary), the origin of the pronunciation with /f/ is not known with any certainty, but similar pronunciations are attested in Middle English times by such spellings as leuftenant, luffetenand, and levetenaunt. 3/ It is a good job Ben from Denver isn't from Dover. See if you're eligible and learn more about the joining process. I can see how the v became [f] (see 'assimilation') so it sounds plausible to me. Apply Now Where will your journey take you? The Royal Navy in World War 2 was a huge and complex organisation spread all across the world. If you really wanted to check, the Oxford English Dictionary staff might be able to advise. YzJhODAzODZjNDA1OTNmMjQxYmVjZTlmYzI2Yzk4MDk5ZTMyODRjOGRhZjYy After the American Revolution, in order to differentiate themselves and pretend to be of higher class, the British began incorrectly pronouncing their R's. ZjM1MTZmYWYxOTNiMzYxOGJmYTIxYWQ2ODkzZTMxYjY2YjU1MjYwOTE5MDU2 advantages of masking animation. Remembered Today: Why does the ending -ough have six pronunciations? Royal Horse Artillery who died 21/02/1917 GUARDS CEMETERY, COMBLES France ' Fun Fact: American english, and all of it's accents is named general american Oh, for goodness sake: grow up, will you? New Zealand Engineers who died 13/03/1918 ST. POL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France ' The 1970 printing of the fifth (1969) edition of the Pocket Oxford Dictionary says 'let' in the navy, 'loo' in the USA and 'left' otherwise. Royal Navy Pay Scales 2021 - 2022 - Armed Forces - RN Officers Pay - Armed Forces Pay Review Body -Forty Eighth Report 48th 2021 Rates - Other Ranks Pay Rates - Royal Naval 2021 Pay Review - How much do Royal Navy get paid, Royal Marines Pay Scales 2022 - 2023 . document.write; - from freedictionary.com. Personally, I think that regardless of the tradition, the simple lack of a letter F should mean that you don't pronounce it "left-tenant". The most common pronunciation I've heard - without my being sufficiently erudite to use the phonetics described earlier with any confidence - approximates to 'l'vtenant'. ~~~ Seems Ben was right on the Revolutionary War beint the dividing point of British and American pronunciation, but IMO, it's pronounced with the F or V sound because of the U/V being interchangable during that time. From what I was told (Fact or fiction as it may be), in the early Naval days (circa 1600), the sword of the Commanding Officer designated who was in charge and who was their leader. I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it (even though I've had that "American Speech" article I quoted from for five years now). I have to say though, that dude that tried to say that British people used to speak like Americans and that they purposely changed their accents out of jingoism is pretty much a huge moron, lol. ZGZjNDYzNTA3MzcyMGIzOWIxNTIxY2E0MzdmYzIifQ== Irish Guards who died 18/03/1916 CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY France ' and Gen. Hos. I should know having served with 21 Signal Regt (AS) in Germany but cant remember. . What is are the functions of diverse organisms? Some sources claim that 'lieutenant' had alternative spellings such as leftenant, leftenaunt, lieftenant, lieftenaunt etc., and that the ModE pronunciation with /f/ (BrE mostly) is a holdover from those spellings. To the man referencing Websters English dictionary, do yourself a favor and pick up an Oxford English Dictionary. I typed in Covey-Crump and got a wiki entry, which directed me to an archived page click here which gives C-C's answer to the question: L'tenant it is, he says. Sign up for a new account in our community. YzgwZjg2NDUyYjE0NDdhYWUzZDE5NGQ2MjJjNzJkMmNiZTA1MjJiMTI5NmE2 Liftenant in the army, lose the 'F' for the navy and John Wayne was a Louie. English is called English because it evolved from England - that's about as far as we can go with nationalist claims to the language. Pronunciation of "Lieutenant" . Why are there 3 different ways to pronounce "oo"? MzE5MGNmYTY0MDE5ZjA5MzQyNzBiMmNiN2E4YzI1OGU0MjhlZDc5NjZhODBh The most prevalent opinion seems to be down to the Roman Latin use of the letter "V" in place of a "U". I think the people addressing the old U and V issue are on the right track, however I think a better explanation is that in old french, lieu was spelled luef. The insignia for a Lieutenant consists of two medium gold braid stripes. Way back in the evolution of English as a language, the letters 'V' and 'U' were basically the same. MzUxODVlY2FhZWY1NDI0ODk1YmJiMjgxY2QyNzFkYzExN2Y3ZTM5NTUyODgy I thought the pronunciation with /f/ arose from the 'minim confusion'; in Middle English, both v and u were used interchangeably. Fast Forward to `Tot Commiseration Day', bloody Americans, (curse them & their DRY SHIPS which was a fore-runner), they were revolting in 1776 - and have remained so ever since !! Last week I attended a lecture on strategy at the Royal United Services Institute, given by Major-General Mungo Melvin (whose book on Field Marshal Erich von Manstein is one of the best books you . Therefore, the term leftenant developed. dailyinfo[8]=' 13277 Labourer Klaas NERO South African Native Labour Corps who died 08/03/1917 PUGU ROAD 1914-1918 MEMORIAL Tanzania ' Shayn M. I was curious why it is pronounced that way by the British. The French have said lieu at least back to the Middle Ages. No, "lief" is a different word, akin to "love" (German "Lieb"). 1st Bn. The insignia of an additional half-stripe between the two full stripes of a lieutenant . The answer is that it was the original pronunciation. This little story offers another simple explanation of the inserted "F" in the pronunciation. I think a lot of younger people in the UK also do so. Frank Harrison EDINGER Army Chaplains Department who died 26/02/1918 HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON United Kingdom ' NmFiZGIxNzIxNTJhN2I5YzM5NWNiMTI2MjVjMTQzZTdkYTIwNWExMjEzNjY2 Check out Dr. Berg's Electrolyte Powder Here: https://drbrg.co/3xbvH0A & Americans need to stop hating on the French -- without Benny Franklin's requesting help from King Louis in 1775, there would be no USA. As the head tenant became richer he was able to pay for a knight to stand in lieu of him. lent to Royal Canadian Navy at Halifax, NS [HMCS Stadacona?] No one can really say why in the British Army the word is pronounced "left-tenant" but it's notable that in the Royal Navy the pronunciation seems half way across the ocean. Royal Navy, 1854-1919. The post of first lieutenant in a shore establishment carries a similar responsibility to that of the first lieutenant of a capital ship. It's possible the US adopted "Loo" because and only because the Brits said "Lef" -- or vice-versa. I encourage you to visit the. Should I put my dog down to help the homeless? Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LieutenantLearn how to say wine words in English, French, Spanish, German, Italian, and many other languages with Julien Miquel and his pronunciation tutorials! Because it's our language, and we can say it any way we like. The Drill Halls project: http://www.drillhalls.org It has been the inspiration for. It's an achaic spelling in English, but not in French. dailyinfo[9]=' Boy SALEH HAJI S.S. TANGISTAN (Swansea).Indian Merchant Service who died 09/03/1915 BOMBAY 1914-1918 MEMORIAL, MUMBAI India ' The early history of the pronunciation is unclear; . . Perhaps (too) much French influence on the fledgling USN in the Napoleonic Wars. The British pronunciation was still used in the USA in 1793 but had almost died out except in military circles by 1893. Commander (lf-tnnt) A commissioned officer in the British and Canadian navies ranking just below a lieutenant commander. lieutenant commander (royal navy) English translation: lieutenant commander (royal navy).. I tried to sound sympathetic and replied, I am sorry, its been a very busy day and we have no cabbage, would you like to try some broccoli Once again the lady huffed and puffed and repeated now in a very cross tone that suggested the shortage was my fault, I said I wanted a savoy cabbage. The politicians and the public wanted nothing that sounded French. [TMP] "Leftenant or Lootenant?" Topic . Idioms with the word back, Cambridge University Press & Assessment 2023. dailyinfo[5]=' 12147 Private Harry COOK 8th Bn. The RAF usually went along with LEFT, as befits RFC heritage. From Latin then, lieutenant literally means "place holder" and the military lieutenant acts on behalf ofor in place oftheir commanding officer. MWU4NTc0MTMwMDVlZTlkY2YwYzQ3MGY4OGE2M2NmODUyODVhODRlODUyNWU4 . I like the guy's answer who referred to vowel shift -- English really had its most fundamemtal changes via the Celts (who were likely influenced by Phoenician sailors/explorers); see John McWhorter's "Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue". NzE2Nzg4YjdjMTJjMjhhMzIzYmJiOGQxMGU2MTA5NDdlYTNmNzQ5OGZlMjVi So it's reasonable to say Middle English speakers confused both [v] and [w]. Lieutenants serve as Division Officers aboard Navy ships, and command groups of sailors and petty officers in various divisions including the deck department, engineering, and others. I suppose that the usage common in WW1 would have been what I was taught 35 years later. This is 2013. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? Simon, David, Dragon - the nearest I can get in phonetics is LUHtenant. English's beauty/zaniness comes from how Brits spell the words as they came to us -- it's a sort of mini-etymology in every word -- simplifying it is cheating & lazy. What about "Aluminum" as opposed to the original British English "Aluminium"?, "jelly" as opposed to "jam", "color" not "colour", "gray" instead of "grey"? Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Lieutenant or WO III After 1940, the WO III rank was abolished and most of these WO IIIs were commissioned as officers. Why does the word "garage" have so many different pronunciations? As far as I'm aware the English/British pronunciation is and has always been "leftenant". The USN settled on "lieutenant commander" in 1862, and made it a distinct rank; the Royal Navy followed suit in March 1914. I have always thought that Lieutenant (lootenant) ie., a tenant in lieu of another as in subaltern ie., under another, or alternate makes more sense than lieutenant (left-tenant). (English pronunciations of lieutenant from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus and from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary, both sources Cambridge University Press) What is the definition of lieutenant? but what I don't understand is how there is this large difference in pronunciation of our words, seeing as we stemmed off of you, the should still be accents that reflect where our accents came from, because accents don't change overnight, and they sure as hell don't deviate from themselves. Like Beauchamp Square, De Beauvoir Town. The language continues to evolve rapidly, now including not only other languages but also computer words as well. A ROYAL Navy officer has been caught shooting X-rated films with her seaman lover at a top secret nuclear base. During the early days of the naval rank, some lieutenants could be very junior indeed, while others could be on the cusp of promotion to captain; those lieutenants ranged across present-day army ranks from a second lieutenant through to a lieutenant colonel. Lieut. dailyinfo[18]=' 6422 Private Charlie GILBERT 4th Coy. Are you considering the U.S. Navy as enlisted or as an officer? YjNhM2FhZTE4ZmRmZjMyYTE0OGQxODk1MjlhN2M2YTVmNWIwZTkxYzk5YjMy Many navies also use a subordinate rank of sub-lieutenant. dailyinfo[23]=' 9656 Private Isaac COOPER "A" Coy. Lincolnshire Regiment who died 05/03/1916 CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES France ' Actually, David from Birmingham, you're flat wrong about Ben from Denver being a moron because he asserted that British people used to speak like Americans. About 1505 he reorganized part of his army into twenty units. /l(j)evtnnt/ (hypercorrection) Assimilation /l(j)eftnnt/. In most navies, the rank's insignia may consist of two medium gold braid stripes, the uppermost stripe featuring an executive curl in many Commonwealth of Nations; or three stripes of equal or unequal width.